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I get
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gri
Shaker Amar an innocent man spent 14
years in illegal detention and endured
around 200 sessions of enhanced
interrogation much of it qualifying as
torture he was a British resident with a
British wife for British children and he
was entitled to British Consular
protection but the British officials who
witnessed his ordeal early in the
Captivity included John from the British
intelligence there not to look out for
him
but G but rather the identity of the
elected politicians who sent him there
and must have received his reports well
sh Amar would still be in Guantanamo Bay
if it had not been for the Magnificent
campaign fought on his behalf as he
himself said in this interview how can
you give up all these people they're
going every you know Joy her Jan Andy
and all these safe Shakir stand with
Shakir truly I couldn't believe it I
cried one day because Jan they asked Jan
he said Jan you know when you going to
stop doing what you are doing and I read
the article and I because she said I
will never stop until that man comes out
and I'm glad to say that we are joined
today by the afor mentioned Joan
McKinnis and Andy warington welcome back
on board the Sputnik and the first thing
that must be said is congratulations it
was a magnificent campaign fought with
Verve and with imagination giant
Inflatables major rock stars uh it was
uh able to enlist such important
political figures as uh as the right
honorable David Davis Andrew Mitchell
from the conservative side and uh the
then little known labor backbencher
Jeremy Corin Corin uh who knew John
McDonald is well John McDonald set up
the all part party parliamentary group
he a really important player how
successful this campaign would be all
around um first of all tell us how is
shakaama he's he's good I think you know
after all this media he's like hankering
after you know a quiet life just uh this
media uh you know came quite quickly
after his release what is it six weeks
and uh I think there's a normal
trajectory of coming out and being all
you know very excited and having a
little bit of a dip and he's not all
that happy about being recognized on the
street he said it's not like being a
celebrity where they're necessarily
going to look at you admiringly he's
worried that people will look at him
suspiciously but so far he has seen
people you know people have been really
really positive um about you know who
have recognized him now of course uh the
backlash has begun from those who whose
role in life is to justify Guantanamo
Bay and the so-called war on terror I
myself had a taste of it on the BBC this
uh last couple of weeks uh in which I
was confronted by a former British Army
commander in Afghanistan
openly repeating the Canard that shakar
Amar was a trained militarized
Al-Qaeda operative and the fact that
there's no evidence to support that at
all didn't seem to trouble them um is
that unsettling for
Shaka uh I don't think he's very
bothered about it I mean he knew it was
coming he knew there would be such
people saying such things but uh I think
he's confident that he'll you know his
message
you know will will Triumph and that he
has an answer for every one of those
allegations that's the main thing isn't
it I mean he he knows they're not true
um and and I and I think when we see
good coverage what we get is I know when
the first photos were taken of Shaka a
bunch of Paparazzi um photographed him
in the street many weeks ago and uh the
telegraph's report I thought was very
fair they said look he was accused of
all these kind of things but then all
these charges were dropped in 2007 when
he was approved for release which is a
very good way of putting it because
there is a file that exists that is
stuffed full of lies um but anyone who
spends any time examining the files
produced on the guantan prison not just
Shaka I mean the majority of the men
held there will realize that these lies
are many of them are made by a handful
of the same prisoners um some of the men
who were held and tortured in the black
sites who whose testimony is obviously
unreliable but there a number of
prisoners within Guantanamo who who we
know from statements made by the US
authorities parts of the apparatus of
the US Administration have been
identified over the years as people who
made claims that looked reliable but
then were found not to be and in shaka's
case these allegations about about him
being involved with Al-Qaeda and having
met Asama Bin Laden come from these
particular people so one of them is Abu
zua the the the man who the US torture
program was invented for
who the US thought was a significant
figure in al-Qaeda when he wasn't at all
um and he's all over the Guantanamo
files making making improbable sounding
allegations against people which turn
out to be
untrue um some of the allegations
against Shaka come from um a yemeni
prisoner who is who is well known for
having lied about at least 130 of the
men held so he was he said that they
were doing things that they were in
places that they couldn't Poss possibly
have been that's been well established
so all of these people who claim that
there is a shred of Truth to the
evidence are really you know
deliberately blinding themselves to
the of this has been exposed as Lies
Over the years now there's a very
fascinating RT angle in this story tell
us about it yeah well um we met Shaker
pretty quickly after he came out um with
a number of other campaigners from the
Save Shaker campaign as well and uh and
some mes and uh he said you have to use
RT he said because RT is what the
brothers in in the prison watch really I
mean we had sort of heard that and uh
when we asked him for an explanation as
to why they were watching RT I thought
it was because you know the guards were
too stupid it was standing for Russian
television Max
Stacy yeah to get up on the you know
Financial advice no they um
they because they don't want to point
the satellite to the US because they
don't want them um watching you know us
news and getting us channels so they
point it to Central America where they
pick up RT and RT is one of the few uh
programs in English that they see if
you're watching guys yeah absolutely so
now look tell tell me what happens uh
next um he's very generously I should
say said that he doesn't want Pro utions
of people in
Britain what does he want in terms of
accountability and how can it be
achieved we'll help him to pursue that
through the all party parliamentary
group um of which um Dominic grieve has
been you know a member and lots of uh
prominent conservatives uh as well
people from all the parties even Alex
Ammon is on that group and we'll be now
pursuing you know whether we're going to
push for a judg Le inquiry or an is C
inquiry different people have different
views about what will be more effective
but I don't think they're mutually
exclusive are they so well this uh
intelligence and security committee is
of course a handpicked group of
Trustees uh and if they're trusted by
The Establishment in my experience they
oughtn't to be trusted by the rest of us
uh but that said Dominic is very much uh
on chaker side you know has been yes but
there are reson datat for uh for
protection of of uh the politicians and
the other officials of the State uh who
are implicated in all of this one can
see Jack straw for example who ought to
be in a public Piller somewhere uh
measuring himself up for the airine robe
for the inevitable Ascent into the House
of Lords Tony Blair may or may not face
uh some kind of Justice in the
forthcoming uh chil coton quiry supp
what I'm saying is I'd go for the judge
Le inquiry if I were you yeah well I
think that's I think that is you know
what what what people really want is
something that we can guarantee is going
to be objective and I mean they they
won't want that because they they're not
going to want the truth to come out
which is the problem that I could see
that with Dominick griev with you know
with his role uh in the ISC that he
would want to expose the truth but I
could see that maybe that would happen
as the process of the investigation and
then the results of it would be hidden
from us uh so you know that what's the
point of that you get some private
Justice for Shaka uh whereas what we
need is public well we need we need
something public and I think you know I
think the the what people in this
country need to look at is what happened
in the United States where there are
sufficient checks and balances in place
that the Senate intelligence committee
managed to conduct a 4-year
investigation into into the cia's
torture program managed to to get a
redacted vers but a version of the
executive summary of that report
publicly released a year ago which has
you know an extraordinary amount of
information about the terrible terrible
things that were done uh by the United
States government and representatives of
it and yet we haven't had anything like
that this country we have no
Constitution we have no Bill of Rights
I've got to tell you with some sadness
uh after a long life in British Politics
the last remaining in institution that I
would trust in the country are the
judges and when I started out in
politics I regarded them with o proam
but one by one the parliament the press
the police the the broadcast media each
one of them has been revealed to be
husks of what they claim to be and so
the last remaining relatively
uncorrupted institution in Britain in my
opinion is the bench well a fantastic
campaign you led uh what's going to
happen to the what's going to happen
what's going to happen to the inflatable
inflatable in his back Garden I think we
need a little Museum somewhere oh am I
we have time for one really Nifty story
that hasn't come out in and and I think
I'm allowed to say when Shaker left I
said what did you leave with and what
did you they gave him a sort of duffel
bag with his Prison number on it 239 you
know as though he was always using it as
his weekend bag and inside was all sorts
of clothes that he'd never worn a quan
brand new all kinds of brand new
things bag and and so we're hoping to
exhibit the inflatable with the you know
with his things from Guantanamo that he
was sent home with it would definitely
be good wouldn't it an exhibit of come
to that exhibition and of course Shaka
has to stand with his inflatable yeah
have to get that picture thank you very
much indeed for all your work and for
coming on the Sputnik coming up next we
shall overcome Trump and the US
presidential race stay
tuned welcome back to Sputnik he may or
may not be a dum blonde but he's
definitely a rum blond Donald Trump has
left no battle UNSC scraped no low blow
unstruck in his elephantine Rampage for
the Republican nomination but is he
going to make it and who might stop him
who better to ask than Republican
political analyst broadcaster and all
around American abroad Charlie wolf
Charlie thanks for joining us thank
youor now uh Donald Trump as we speak is
in a very commanding position and it
seems the more outrageous his talk the
more popular and becomes what does that
tell us he's sort of like a certain
former head of respect that I know or
maybe still possible head of respect
party that he's you he's a right-wing
version of you George and that's why he
wor you know and seriously I have
nothing to come over yeah okay so he's
got you at least on one thing you know
yeah I'm sure he'll be proud but if if
you think of it both of you are
wonderful orators in your own way and
you're not beholden to political speech
you know if you're someone who's a
serious politician or one of the bog
standard politicians you know how it
it's done here you don't say anything
because obviously the press or the
opposite opposing side will hold you to
it so you know we answer a question with
the answer to another question Trump
doesn't care he's not a politician and
granted his positions can shift from day
to day if not minute to minute uh which
a minister or or a regular politician
could have get away with but you guys
can do that and it can be outrageous and
do whatever you want to do and and
that's attracts people but I think in
Trump's case
what's made him work so far is he's
filling a vacuum uh especially since the
San Bernardino shootings um Mr Obama
does not appear to lead you know with
all due respect to the president uh I
watched that speech from the Oval Office
on the Sunday after you look at even
back when speaking of Syria uh the the
famous red lines that Assad happily
stuck not only stuck his foot over put
you know played Hopscotch with and we
have a man who does not take charge Well
Middle America is scared we've just had
the events in Paris recently now we had
the on the home soil we had this event
and again the Sunday morning it was not
a speech that was up there would say uh
Reagan's Challenger speech you know when
the Challenger rocket blew up uh and it
was filled with this political speak
about guns and all right you can have
your your view on guns which is fair
enough but this had essentially nothing
to do with guns it was an act of
terrorism so Trump is filling that that
that uh that vacuum and people say he
sounds like he's in charge and that's
what we want and also yeah he's fun
entertainment you know you look at the
different debates the put Downs I I
personally um I don't know if I he he'd
be the guy I'd want to run because I
don't know if he's the guy I'd want to
be president or the guy I'd want to
necessarily go up against Hillary but I
would love to see a Hillary Trump debate
just before we leave it though I'm
wondering why Americans this Great
Mighty country the world's Mightiest and
fought many a Battle also uh are so
afraid you have more chance of dying in
your bath of drowning than in a
terrorist incident in the United States
1.15 million people have been shot to
death in the United States since
1980 99% of the shooters or more were
not Muslims no yeah they were not
terrorists um why are the American
people so afraid whatever happened to
keep calm and carry on I think that was
one of your guys' Expressions but yeah
listen the statistics you bring up he
was half American George he had an
americ that's right you're very right uh
Jenny and um I I think what's the matter
is the difference between shootings that
happened that are unfortunate actually
crime figures have been going down over
the years uh we're paying more attention
to it because unfortunately we've had
more of these would are classed as spree
shootings uh and let me say this also
just reflection to Muslims when Trump
made that statement I think his problem
is he needs someone to work out a
communication strategy to know how to
you know it's it's easy when you're in a
bar somewhere or you're you're a taxi
driver I'll tell you about them damn
Muslims that's how this is how I fix the
whole problem you know maybe in the back
of a cab fortunately or unfortunally
that can happen but when yeah when
you're on a mic and you're the president
or a candidate the slightest thing can
be taken is symbolically now uh and
taken out of hand remember the second
Clause of that sentence was until the
government gets its
act together works out what's going on
what the hell is going on yeah so it
sounds to me and I'm not necessarily
defending Trump but you know looking at
it fairly it sounds like he was more
taking his uh his vehement out on the
government saying you know like
everybody else they're stupid to use a a
trump line um I I think if it had been
me I would have phrased it to see the
effect of right now we've had an attack
on the Homeland we don't know who we
letting into our country I know there
are many good people that want to come
in and we'd love to have them but until
we know who is coming through the front
door I think people from countries x y
and Zed um I I want to close the doors
to them temporarily until
again the immigration State Department
Etc figures out what it's doing and we
know who we're letting in who we we want
to welcome and to be our friends and to
prosper like everybody else has the
United States if he did it that way well
instead he used the common denominators
of Muslims including those Muslim
fighting in the US Army well exactly and
where he's got the Trump hotels all over
the Middle East and other Muslim
countries oh I know I know and well I
think one of the problems is is a way to
try and differentiate uh for instance uh
as you know Mr Obama will not
say them and again I don't think it's
necessarily the Quran that's that's
inspiring them but when you're talking a
fervent religious belief that's a pretty
strong you know these are people that
are willing to blow themselves up you
know in past days of warfare uh whoever
you were fighting they wanted to stay
alive you wanted to stay alive so it's
finding that way of acknowledging that
yes in its own way Islam plays its part
but obviously it's not Muslims you know
and I I used to like the term Muslim
versus islamist to me and I don't know
if that's correct or not the other way
around me
ex I prefer the world extremist myself
because there are extremist Jews
Christians Muslims Hindus there are all
kinds of extremist must be against them
all oh yes but I think the thing that
puts this one at the top is remember
these are the people that are calling
for a worldwide califate these are the
folks that are beheading people you know
in a most shocking manner again not to
take away from the others you know as a
as a a Jewish boy uh you know I was with
my friend Bonnie Greer once we're
talking about going down south and I'm
sure there's still some leftover white
supremacist Kooks clan people that hate
me just as much as they hate Bonnie uh
so I you know I understand it's out
there but what's made America nervous is
you know remember we've had 911 which
was an event beyond all others 3,000
people Jew Muslim Christian were killed
and we have a group again that is
calling out for a worldwide Jihad sure
uh calling out for it but not actually
able to carry out that's why I'm I'm
slightly surprised at the levels of fear
and anxiety and I'm wondering if the
politicians in the media class for their
own reasons are helping to turn that up
to S it up I don't I think in some
respects it goes back to what I said
before about Obama by by not recognizing
what it was and again by by really not
getting invested in it um you know it's
been said recently he seems to have more
hatred for republicans in the Press than
he does for isil and and what have you
um you know it's a president's job to
bring the nation together and
unfortunately I see him divisively
tearing it apart um and and that's I
think again is where the problem is you
know as long as you think of of these
middle Americans as you know angry
knuckle dragging uh what was the line U
with their guns and their religion you
know I think they're for the most part
honest people just like if you want to
take for example here in London uh when
Cameron went off against
ukip and I don't think that all the
members of ukip were members of the the
national front I think a lot of them
rightly or wrongly were good honest
people that are sitting there worried
about too many immigrants coming in and
affecting their job or their pay now
that may be right or wrong but I think
it's sincerely held beliefs is Trump
going to do it looks it to me and if not
who who's going to stop well it's
interesting we we just had the last
debate of this year of of 2015 and the
first debate since San Bernardino uh and
actually the guy that seems to have come
out the sort of Dark Horse that you
would have seen coming I think is Ted
Cruz uh and he's played a very
interesting game of being Trump's friend
and not you know for instance George not
George Jeb Bush excoriating uh Trump you
know with that line I think he's
unhinged now on the day of the the
comments and all the different media I
did people were saying well are you
going to condemn them and I said well
I'd rather analyze them and also we've
heard enough I mean everybody went
without saying so I would say watch Cruz
he's played a smart game he's very
conservative almost a little too
conservative for my own liking but
there's a battle now going out between
Cruz and Trump and also Rubio is sort of
in there and I think Christie is up
there a little bit but also remember
this not a vote has been decided or cast
anywhere it hasn't started yet the start
of this election cycle begins I think
it's the end of January with the Iowa
caucus I it's hard for me sometimes to
figure out I was talking to a good
friend in in uh New York recently and
and I said what do you think and he said
I don't I just don't know none of us
know it isn't you know going to what
should be expected to just as I'm sure
with you you can read what's going on in
the country and you have an idea who you
think or is going to or not going to be
the the next prime minister or the next
party in power he's broken all the rules
um up until now everything has revolved
around Trump you know you watch a
democratic Democratic uh debate and the
uh the anchors on the news media going I
wonder how Donald Trump is going to
affect he like it has nothing to do with
Trump and it's still you know we're
having Franks and Beans tonight for
dinner I wonder how that will affect the
Trump campaign you know you know he he
he sucks all yeah and you know I guess
the downside is he sucks all the air out
of the room or all the oxygen out of the
room after that uh uh that comment he
made on on uh closing the door to
Muslims Trump in the next week got I
think it was four times as much media
hits
as all the others put together yeah yeah
you know and they're complaining
children in the street in London know
who Donald Trump is yeah uh people who
live in Ted Cruz's Street don't
necessarily know who he is Charlie wolf
as always words of wisdom your Insight
is very
valuable and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling gy well
with the release of Shaker H him back in
England would an amnesty be enough to
get the truth from Tony Blair and Jack
straw on rendition and torture Sean
Caden says now that's a very interesting
question God willing I'm looking forward
to seeing them in orange jumpsuits well
I think the humiliation of any prisoner
even Jack straw and Tony Blair is
unwarranted but uh undoubtedly with
chill cot and with our film the killings
of Tony Blair closing bearing down on
these people the pressure is on them on
Donald Trump Ricardo Picasso says Trump
is the tip of the iceberg election boils
down to choose which odious dollar
backed reptile you want Bernie Sanders
the only alternative alas beginning to
fall behind now in the polls I think you
can say Hillary is definitely the
Democrat unfortunately is who's going to
be up against well that's all that we've
got time for this week which I'll ask me
means that's the end of the show you can
stay in touch with us through Twitter on
rtor Sputnik and on Facebook Sputnik on
Russia today it's goodbye from me gatri
and from me George Galloway it's been
marvelous
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